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Why didn't GT Vegeta...
Topic Started: May 1 2013, 06:19 PM (2,213 Views)
IllogicalGlory
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Saberoph
May 2 2013, 04:28 PM
You mean other than just saying "it's GT"

I'm just saying that you can't ignore that his tail wasn't there one minute, but the next while being around the Moon Ball it was.

And, it seems more like explaining around it, then an actual explanation.
Sometimes a plot hole is just a plot hole. There's no other answer for why Goku is stronger than Buuhan in base other than "it's GT," is there?

And yes, we've given you plenty of explanations other than "it's GT."

---The process of Gohan's tail growing back took months, but came to fruition during the Moon ball exposure
---The Moon Ball is unreliable/slow, while the Blutz wave amplifier is reliable
---It was coincidence that Gohan's tail grew back then, just like it was coincidence that Goku's grew back during the 21st
---Creating the Moon Ball took a lot of energy from Vegeta and he was unwilling to risk it again.

For your theory of it causing tails to grow back, then answer this: Why didn't Vegeta's tail grow back too?

Also, not everyone in DB/Z/GT has fall perfectly into place there can be plot holes, not everything that occurs has an explanation behind it.
Edited by IllogicalGlory, May 3 2013, 02:20 AM.
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Saberoph
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Saying it's a coincidence is no different than saying Plot or It's GT.

It still a copout no matter how you look at it.

I know Gohan's tail would start to grow back, but had it already been fully regrown then it would have been Shown before then.

If anything the Moon Ball sped it up.
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Professor Gohan
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I've always thought tails came back at the right, in need moment.

Goku for example. His came back in time when he was up against Giran. Gohan's came out when it needed to.

That's what I can think of right now.

But the moon ball bringing the tail out is really believable too. I really want to go with that.
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Saberoph
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Cool, thanks for your input.

I always look forward to what you've got to say.
Batman Arkham Games Discussion.
http://dbzf.co.uk/topic/8487015/1/
Q&A With Me.
http://dbzf.co.uk/topic/8408853/1/
Dragon Ball Game Talk.
http://dbzf.co.uk/topic/8410747/1/
Dragon Ball Game Talk 2.0
http://dbzf.co.uk/topic/8543860/1/
My Broli Idea.
http://dbzf.co.uk/single/?p=8716209&t=8374201
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http://dbzf.co.uk/topic/8561069/1/

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IllogicalGlory
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Saberoph
May 3 2013, 03:06 AM
Saying it's a coincidence is no different than saying Plot or It's GT.

It still a copout no matter how you look at it.

I know Gohan's tail would start to grow back, but had it already been fully regrown then it would have been Shown before then.

If anything the Moon Ball sped it up.
Why is it that you seem to completely ignore the theories that I've presented and always fixate on my belief that plot holes exist in GT? Why have you not even acknowledged the other aspects of what I've been saying? I'll quote myself, these are 4 explanations that I've offered, three of which you seem to have ignored. Could you at least respond to the one about the machine being more reliable or the risk of losing energy. Don't tell me I'm copping out by saying "it's GT," that post was mostly a joke anyway, when I have offered plenty of reasonable though-out explanations for why the Moon Ball was not used.

Also, you are fixating on the concept of the Moon Ball have tail regrowth properties when there was never anything mentioned about that by Vegeta or anyone else, I believe that if it was indeed the fake moon that caused it to regrow, Vegeta would have mentioned it when he saw Gohan's tail.

IllogicalGlory
 
---The process of Gohan's tail growing back took months, but came to fruition during the Moon ball exposure
---The Moon Ball is unreliable/slow, while the Blutz wave amplifier is reliable
---It was coincidence that Gohan's tail grew back then, just like it was coincidence that Goku's grew back during the 21st
---Creating the Moon Ball took a lot of energy from Vegeta and he was unwilling to risk it again.

Tails always come back instantly, except in the case of GT where it came back in over time.

Also, why didn't Vegeta's tail grow back after it was cut off by Yajirobe? If it was indeed in the Moon Ball that did it?

We've only seen the Moon Ball in action once, and nothing related to it was talked about, save the fact that it functions as a full moon and that it took a lot of energy out of Vegeta. There is no evidence that it caused Gohan's tail to regrow, there is no evidence that moons cause tails to regrow, and there is no evidence that Gohan's tail would not have regrown without the Moon Ball.

Finally, I will reiterate my point: not everything has a logical explanation in any form of fiction. Dragon Ball/Z/GT does not wear the crown of having zero plot holes, if anything they're quite numerous, as is usually the case with long-running mangas/animes/anything else.
Edited by IllogicalGlory, May 3 2013, 06:03 AM.
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Saberoph
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I'm not ignoring anything, and yes, saying It's GT is a copout.

1st Point. Even you're admitting Gohan being exposed to the Moon Ball did something, and I even said it was already starting to grow back, but if anything the Moon Ball sped it up.

2nd Point. That goes without saying, and it's obvious that it's reliable. So, I don't know why you expect me to say anything when anyone who knows GT, knows it too.

3rd Point. Saying coincidence is like saying "Plot" or "It's GT", it's a copout explanation, they have no purpose, and it just looks like you're using it as another point, when it isn't one.

4th Point. Same as the second point, it really doesn't need to be brought up, because anyone who knows anything knows about it.

So, I'm ignoring just because two of your points went without saying because anyone who knows anything about DBZ/GT would know them, you kind of worded that in a were it can be used against you too? Uh No, I'm not ignoring your points, even though you keep using a copout half the time. I see your point, but the fact that the Tail Came out After Being Exposed to the Moon Ball, cannot be ignored... but is being ignored.

So, who's ignoring what?


Also, in all of my Posts in this there where have I said DB/Z/GT didn't have plot holes? I didn't say it anywhere, and most of the time just about anyone can find a way to explain something with logic, and if it isn't contradicted, then there isn't anything keeping it from fitting.


I hope you've got something better than copout explanations, and saying the Moon Ball didn't do anything, but then it came to fruition after being exposed to the Moon Ball, you're trying to word things where you don't directly admit that it had an effect, but still admitting it.
Edited by Saberoph, May 3 2013, 05:02 PM.
Batman Arkham Games Discussion.
http://dbzf.co.uk/topic/8487015/1/
Q&A With Me.
http://dbzf.co.uk/topic/8408853/1/
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http://dbzf.co.uk/topic/8410747/1/
Dragon Ball Game Talk 2.0
http://dbzf.co.uk/topic/8543860/1/
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http://dbzf.co.uk/single/?p=8716209&t=8374201
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IllogicalGlory
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IllogicalGlory
 
Also, why didn't Vegeta's tail grow back after it was cut off by Yajirobe? If it was indeed in the Moon Ball that did it?
Answer this please, if the Moon Ball causes tail regrowth, then why did Vegeta's not grow back? The method of removal was no different than Piccolo removing it from Gohan.

Please answer that point. I've posted it twice now.

If saying "it's GT" is a copout, then explain to me why Goku is stronger than Buuhan in base. There is no answer to how Goku became as strong as someone like that other than "it's GT." If you can give me a good, reasonable answer that makes sense, then I'll concede that saying "it's GT" is a copout. But no one has been able to do that yet because there is no reasonable explanation other than "it's GT."

I did not admit that the Moon Ball had an effect, I'm saying that his tail would have regrown at that time without the Moon Ball's intervention. If the Moon Ball functions like a normal moon, then there is no reason to believe that it is what caused the tail regrowth (Goku's tail regrew after Grandpa Gohan ripped it off and there was no moon in the sky at that time)

As for your points about it already being known, how should I know you're not forgetting those parts? Also, just because you already know them doesn't make them reasonable explanations for Vegeta not using it. If you're not going to buy that Vegeta considers that the risks outweigh the benefits, then you will find it difficult to get any other explanation than "it's GT."
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Saberoph
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You ignored me saying Gohan's tail was regrowing and the Moon Ball sped it up. I said it more than once, and you still ask the same question ignoring it.

AT set that up, Kakarrot said in EOZ there was someone as strong as Chibi Boo, and they still went with the No SS rule from the Boo arc, so Toei ran with it, and Kakarrot and Oob Trained together, and at BOGT Kakarrot was equal to Oob who is stronger than Chibi Boo. So in short, Kakarrot got that powerful through intense Training.

Your own words is that it came to fruition, if you didn't mean it that way, then rewording it would clear that up.

Also, I said as before, that Gohan's tail would be growing back and the Moon Ball would speed up the process. So, of course Kakarrot's Tail would grow on it's own, and I never said a Tail could not and would not grow on it's own.

As for me not forgetting, because I have mentioned them time and time again, and it's clear I know a lot about GT, and almost as much as I do about Z, so logically is you compare what I know about GT to Z, then it would make sense that I do know about it.


As for a side note that would help make seem more logical, Bulma making a Saiyan healing tank, taking samples from Kakarrot's tail and using the tank to regrow Vegeta's tail. It would be less lame and would make more sense than Vegeta taking a route the Z Vegeta would never do.
Edited by Saberoph, May 4 2013, 06:54 AM.
Batman Arkham Games Discussion.
http://dbzf.co.uk/topic/8487015/1/
Q&A With Me.
http://dbzf.co.uk/topic/8408853/1/
Dragon Ball Game Talk.
http://dbzf.co.uk/topic/8410747/1/
Dragon Ball Game Talk 2.0
http://dbzf.co.uk/topic/8543860/1/
My Broli Idea.
http://dbzf.co.uk/single/?p=8716209&t=8374201
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IllogicalGlory
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Quote:
 
AT set that up, Kakarrot said in EOZ there was someone as strong as Chibi Boo, and they still went with the No SS rule from the Boo arc, so Toei ran with it, and Kakarrot and Oob Trained together, and at BOGT Kakarrot was equal to Oob who is stronger than Chibi Boo. So in short, Kakarrot got that powerful through intense Training.
But it was only five years (right? I don't acutally know, the English dub confuses me) and the gap between those two was absolutely enormous. Not to mention that Goku's power seems to randomly increase between the early parts of Black Star arc and the Rildo fight. Then there's Gohan, who was super strong before then (much closer to Buuhan) can't even keep up with base Goku using super saiyan and he was said to train as well. It just doesn't make any kind of sense. There's no reasonable explanation for how powers became the way they were.

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You ignored me saying Gohan's tail was regrowing and the Moon Ball sped it up. I said it more than once, and you still ask the same question ignoring it.
Since when do tails grow back incrementally, they just sprout out whenever they're ready (it usually happens when it would make a difference), if anything it's more of evolutionary of biological response to danger (on the order of a Zenkai). I don't believe that the moon ball increased the speed at which Gohan's tail grew back.

That or the process of them being ready to sprout (the process I was referring to when I said "fruition") comes after some period time (in Gohan's case 6 months).
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Saberoph
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But remember, Gohan about tripled his power in 1 day with a sword. Kakarrot and Gohan did more than that in less than year. Is it too far of a stretch? I don't think so, if you follow major increases happen with a sparring partner, which you kinda would have to, to follow the Cell arc.

As for Kakarrot getting stronger at BOGT and Baby arc. He didn't have anyone to Train with, and yes he went on about Redjic and Lood's power, he was still unaffected by both in Base. So, you could follow increases between the two arcs, but I follow Kakarrot wasn't using his full power against both of them, and him going SS against Redjic was just showing off.


But, it isn't too far fetched either, since we don't see it until he's exposed to it.

Also, remember Goku at the Budokai against Jackie Chunn/Roshi, his tail grew back at night, and on that night he was exposed to the Moon a bit before his tail pops out.

Not saying it should be the only way to go about this, but I think it's note worthy that there's two cases in two series that a Moon energy was present.
Batman Arkham Games Discussion.
http://dbzf.co.uk/topic/8487015/1/
Q&A With Me.
http://dbzf.co.uk/topic/8408853/1/
Dragon Ball Game Talk.
http://dbzf.co.uk/topic/8410747/1/
Dragon Ball Game Talk 2.0
http://dbzf.co.uk/topic/8543860/1/
My Broli Idea.
http://dbzf.co.uk/single/?p=8716209&t=8374201
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http://dbzf.co.uk/topic/8561069/1/

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